Technical Forums» Technical / Performance» CG13DE vs CGA13DE
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since:  Posts:  |
CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 02:12:38 PM |
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Hi,
I've noticed on my travels an increasing use of the engine code: CGA13DE. note the "A" From what I gather the engine came in the AK11, WAK11, ANK11, Z10 (cube). Thats all the models I've found so far.. I've googled it and found a bit but there doesnt seem to be any major differences between the two motors? I wish I could read/speak/type japanese. cheers |
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 02:15:28 PM |
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Coilpack ignition mabye?
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White Knight » CMF Member Perth Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 02:41:06 PM |
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Mine is a CG13DE and has coil pack ignition.
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 03:11:05 PM |
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Hmmm no its got nothing to do with ignition I think.
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 04:28:32 PM |
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Wow!
standard CGA13DE has almost 20HP over a standard CG13DE. it is a bit larger in all dimensions, but still slightly smaller than a GA16DE. Main differences are a larger head which flows better. Fits directly into a micra engine bay with standard micra gearbox after modification of one engine mount. Trying to find out about how they are electrical wise. muahaha i shouldnt have posted this... I could have secretly had the most powerful NA micra in australia... :P |
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 07:33:29 PM |
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cga3de is standard micra engine from 2000 -2003 in uk. its the same engine as the cg13de but bored out to 1348cc. its called a 1.4 in uk but still called the 1.3 in japan. it has no distributor like the cg10de 2000-2003 micra. throttle body is different also.
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 07:34:04 PM |
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its been posted on this and other site years ago mate
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 07:55:05 PM |
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I couldnt find a link to it.
So i figured it needed to be researched again. Makes sense? |
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 10:11:31 PM |
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was a long time ago, from 2000 onwards when it could have been discussed. old forums etc so some will have gone maybe,also know as the 1.4 . its the cga3de not cga13de. there is a topic on it on the current site.
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 10:28:37 PM |
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Care to link me up to the "current site"?
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 10:39:46 PM |
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search for cga3de on technical
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 10:58:45 PM |
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I am assuming MicraHolics UK? If so, need to register to seach.
Had a look through all the K11 tech pages though and couldnt see anything of use to me. If you could link it to me that'd be great! Would save me signing upto a bloody forum... |
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 10:59:31 PM |
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There was some discussion on some other european k11 forums but unfortunately that site seems to have bitten the dust.
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 11:03:51 PM |
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i meant there is only one search item on this site for that engine code which is here http://www.micra.com.au/community/message.php?messageid=5671
ther may be more under 1.4. btu i know it has been discussed quite afew times before on here. |
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Wed 30 Nov 2005 11:15:54 PM |
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It may have been but all those previous topics were wiped in the great database collapse of 2005.
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:35:49 AM |
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are u guys talking about "cga3de"??
my '93 k11 cganged a cga3de,and it's perfect fit!! NO engine mounts needs to be modificate and just some different harness !! the output of this engine is 85hp there is another engine called "cga3α",it's also 1348cc and also ferfect fit, but 101hp !! if you need some messane about it ,search "z10" or "az10" in yahoo japan , that should be work !! in japan ,you can also put a CVT-M6(NOT NCVT) on k11 !! |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:36:45 AM |
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are u guys talking about "cga3de"??
my '93 k11 changed a cga3de,and it's perfect fit!! NO engine mounts needs to be modificate and just some different harness !! the output of this engine is 85hp there is another engine called "cga3α",it's also 1348cc and also ferfect fit, but 101hp !! if you need some messane about it ,search "z10" or "az10" in yahoo japan , that should be work !! in japan ,you can also put a CVT-M6(NOT NCVT) on k11 !! |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:42:22 AM |
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the size is same as cg13,but cga3de has a "knock sensor"!!
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:48:24 AM |
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i knew the mounts are the same, was wondering on how difficuly the wiring would be. any tips? you decided to convert it to distributor system? did you swap the cams over or do the cga cams have a groove cut in them even though they dont have distributor fitment? i think the 100bhp one you mention is same spec block, but different tune wxhaust and ecu maybe. in uk the cga has 82bhp.
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micra_pete » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:48:46 AM |
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lewis did you change the ecu?
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 02:04:54 AM |
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cga3de is designed on distributer ,not a direct ign.
cr1xde(cr12,14,15) are direct ign!! so it's really easy to convert !!( 2 days in garage by myself) now i keep the orignal ecu + e-manage(waiting for f-con) different point:(use original cg13 parts) 1.charger(different harness) 2.distributer(different harness) 3.throttle body(different harness but work) 4.a/c compresser(different in/outlet position) 5.power pump(different in/outlet position) that's all !! |
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micra_pete » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 02:13:46 AM |
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if you haven't changed the ecu, the knock sensor will not be working
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 02:46:22 AM |
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in the uk the cga micra engines are coilpacks and there is no distributor. the head is different and most likely the cams aswell. ecu is totaly different aswell. what country are you in or got the engine from?
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55bhp is more than enough » CMF Member bolton United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 03:35:36 AM |
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right so k11 engines are
cg10de 998cc-55bhp up until 2000 when it changed to 59bhp coz of the ignition system cg13de 1275-75bhp up until 2000 when it changes to 79 bLAH BLAH the cga3d 1275- 81 bhp another cga3d 1348(the half jap half french hybrid) with 101bhp is that is for the k11 engines? cisco maybe you should do a list |
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 04:41:18 AM |
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no
cga is 1348cc never 1275cc. |
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 04:43:44 AM |
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in 2000 the 1.0 went to 59/60bhp becasue the 2nd cat was removed. the ignition system may not have changed the bhp that much.
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 04:44:29 AM |
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it doesnt change to 79 either
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 04:45:33 AM |
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the march cg13 have 79 as they have no 2nd cat and better ecu.
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 10:10:44 AM |
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So the engine of choice here is definately the CGA3A?
The nissan/renault hybrid CGA13DE, the facelift to the long serving and proven CG13DE. Interesting. So we know someone has put a CGA3DE in an ex-CG13 k11 (lewis). Do we know anyone who has dared to put a CGA3A into an ex- CG13 k11? |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 11:26:53 AM |
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I HAVE A SPARE CGA3α IN MY GARAGE NOW !!(BECAUSE I INCREASED MY COMPRESS RATIO FROM 9.5:1 TO 14:1 ,I AFRAID SOMEDAY......JUST INCASE...
IN TAIWAN , K11 ONLY HAVE CG13DE 1275CC ENGINE,IN JAPAN THEY HAVE CG10DE ,CG13DE,CGA3DE,CGA3α. CGA13 ?? I DO'NT KNOW!! BUT THEY HAVE ANOTHER TYPE OF ENGINE CALLED "CR" TYPE WHITCH HAS NO DISTRIBUTOR LIKE YOU SAID,K12 IN JAPAN HAVE CR12(1.2L),CR14(1.4L),CR15(1.5L) OR MAYBE CGA13=CGA3DE+CR14DE ?? |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 11:44:05 AM |
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HERE ARE SOME CR14 HEAD PIC.
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 11:44:50 AM |
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AND..
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 11:46:16 AM |
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THIS IS CGA3DE !!
OR LINK :http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n23531163 |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 11:46:43 AM |
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AND...
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 11:47:09 AM |
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AND..
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 12:01:56 PM |
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The valves and head porting on the CR14DE look huge compared to the CG13DE.
Upon searching the web for CGA3A - nothing comes up. In the Z10 Cube, nissan only refers to a CGA3D and a CG10Di (direct injection). Mabye the CGA3A = CR14DE? |
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 12:04:49 PM |
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Oh my bad I keep putting CGA13 out of habbit. Using letters for engine size is too toyota for me!
lewis - what cars did you get your cga3a from? do you have any pictures of your cga3a engine? Cheers |
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Sean » CMF Member Canberra Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 12:50:20 PM |
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Has anyone else noticed it has DIRECT INJECTION instead of multipoint?
Sean |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:03:05 PM |
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I GOT CGA3a(a=ALFA) FROM JAPAN NISSAN 2004 AZ-10(CUBE),AND THIS ENGINE IS REALLY DIFFICULT TO FIND !!
I WAIT IT FOR MORE THEN 1 YEAR BECAUSE NISSAN CHOOSE 1 PC FROM 100 PCS,THAT MEANS IF THEY MADE 10,000 CGA3DE,THERE WERE ONLY 100(OR LESS) CGA3a !! HERE ARE NISSAN JAPAN LINK:http://www.auto-web.co.jp/HOT-NEWS/2001/05/0508_CUBE.html |
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:17:16 PM |
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Yeh i noticed the direct injection as well sean - those injectors look funky. If you wanted to strap on some kind of forced induction it looks like it could be rather difficult to source larger injectors!
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:20:06 PM |
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lewis - do you think it is worth the time and effort to get a cga3a engine?
Do they respond to modifications just as well as the CG13DE/CGA3DE? I would really, really love it if you could post up a picture of your cga3a engine and also some close ups of the engine block engravings and stampings? Cheers |
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Fri 02 Dec 2005 01:12:42 AM |
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intersting to see it. definately different to the uk cga3de, as said we have the coilpacks and no distributor. whats the power output of your cga3de? ours is 82bhp. in japan because of the better fuel/ecu i think its 85ish. i didnt know of the distributor version of the cga3de before. or the cga3a
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Fri 02 Dec 2005 01:55:12 AM |
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i'll take some photos soon but i'm not home now !!
i'm away from home for business trip and i'll be home 3~4days , my cga3de now has only 120ps (dyno) , ofcourse after modified ; exhaust,compress ratio,colr air inlet,power flow,e-manage,MSD,crank balancing.... oh ! if you guys want to use e-manage , i'll suggest you "forget it !!" because i'm a victim on that!! i'll suggest you hks f-con sz(v-pro),it's much better !! |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 02:57:14 AM |
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here you are...
CGA3a.. |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 02:57:56 AM |
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AND MORE...
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 02:58:29 AM |
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AND...
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 02:59:05 AM |
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AND..
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 03:00:38 AM |
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AND...
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 03:04:11 AM |
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IT'S DISTRIBUTOR IGNITION ,NOT CDI!!
YOU CAM COMPARE THE PICS WITH CGA3DE,IT'S JUST A LITTLE DIFFERENT !! IT COMES WITH A CVT-M6 TRANSMISSION AND I'M INTRESTING ON THAT ! MAYBE SOMEDAY...HAHHHH....K11 CVT-6.... |
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lewis » CMF Member florance United States (USA) Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 03:05:12 AM |
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LOST 0NE PIC...
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 03:26:16 AM |
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what year is it from ?is it from a cube?
so maybe our uk engines being cga13de have that difference if yours is called cga3a instead? |
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 03:27:42 AM |
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ah no just read you 1st post. so yours is a non uk type cga13de. but to know if your is from cube and or pre 2000 would help understand things.
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 09:52:52 AM |
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Look at the sump on that CGA3A that lewis has there...
Its got normal ignition and doesnt appear to be direct injection... lewis what you have to do it pull the intake and exhaust manifolds off just for us and take pictures of the intake and exhaust ports in the head so we can see if they're different in the 85HP and 101HP versions. :P Visually it looks pretty much the same to me... |
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 09:59:40 AM |
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D'Oh! Look at the exhaust headers on the last few pics!!!
1) they're not castings! 2) they're tubular 3) they're mandrel bent 4) they're pretty long for standard eqipment. Now carrying on from point 4, in the JDM market nissan has a habbit of using higher quality exhaust headers on higher compression versions of particular motors (like the SR20DE for example) and they usually have slightly longer primaries than their lower compression counterparts. Mabye the CGA3A isnt the holy grail of CG's afterall? Its just a spicey final revision before they replaced it with the CR series motor. |
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 10:27:35 AM |
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thats the cube manifold. quite a popular mod in japan to the cg13de k11. flows much better. they also put in the cube cam which has a higher degree outlet. its a cube engine above i'm sure of it.
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 10:31:44 AM |
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which if it was makes sence becasue it may be older and so not have the coilpacks that the newer series developed into. cube engines like this were 1275cc and 80something bhp. at somepoint i guess they went to the 1348cc version, but with coilpacks i expect.
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 10:33:14 AM |
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unless this is something of a hybrid imbetween. (need and edit function)
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 03 Dec 2005 10:35:04 AM |
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yeh it is a cube engine, he said that a few posts ago. I think an AZ10 cube he got it from...
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Mr March » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sun 04 Dec 2005 11:57:47 PM |
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I bought a cube alpha manifold like the one on this engine. This manifold is not on the nomal cube cga3de only the alpha version of the cga3de. The early cube had the usual 79ps cg13de. In 2001 The lineup included the cga3de 85ps and the alpha 101ps engine. The 85ps cube is identical to the march version.
Cube alpha had : Different cams, different airbox, ecu, manifold, cat converter. Compression 10:1 power 101ps torque 12.5. These produced this power with 100 ron fuel. Regular versions could be run on regular japanese 90 ron fuel. |
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Mon 05 Dec 2005 02:14:01 AM |
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mr march does can you tell me if any of them 1348cc jap cga3de or cga3a have coilpacks instead of distributor like the uk versions.
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Mon 05 Dec 2005 08:49:19 AM |
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Thanks for that Mr March!
I gotta find me a cube front cut with that 101hp engine. Hey GTRHOLIC, I need your help... hehe |
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nz_aj » CMF Member Auckland New Zealand Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Mon 05 Dec 2005 01:26:50 PM |
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Mr March » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 08 Dec 2005 12:55:06 PM |
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The japanese spec CGA3DE (regular and alpha) don't have coilpacks.
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Polar » CMF Member United Kingdom Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Thu 08 Dec 2005 08:42:21 PM |
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thats great to know. so could import an alpha spec 100bhp version and it should be compatible with our uk pre 2000 loom. would just need a nice ecu remap.
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Tseq » CMF Member Athens Greece Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sat 17 Dec 2005 10:05:37 PM |
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I've got a K11 2002 1.0 with NATS,A/C,airbag and digital tacho.I want to buy a 1.3 lump from a scrapyard.I found one with a black head but I'm not sure if it is a cg13de or ca3de.
Are there any cg13de with a black head? Do i need to buy all the wiring system and sensors along with the engine to make it work or just the motor and ecu? |
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NotAnotherSSS » CMF Member Brisbane Australia Member since: Posts: |
Re: CG13DE vs CGA13DE |
Sun 18 Dec 2005 09:49:26 AM |
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All Jap made CG engines had a black cam cover afaik.
There's a picture of a CGA3DE in this thread further up, the first thing which tells you what it is would be the engine number stamped into the block. The next thing to look for is a knock sensor on the left hand side of the engine attached to the head with a little plug for a sensor poking up looking at you! I hope that made sense haha |
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