A rather thirsty March 1.0 - Cisco's Micra Files

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	A rather thirsty March 1.0	Thu 12 Feb 2009 07:01:09 PM
	Hi all. I found this site while doing googling about for an answer to a problem I'm having with a lovely little March 1.0 that I bought my wife a while back. I have lately noticed that it is using what I think is way too much fuel for a car of this size. I've had my suspicions for some weeks but I was using it myself for the last few days and it took more than 13 litres to cover less than 150 kms (or a nudge over 30 mpg in the old language). My driving included about 70 kms of open road and the rest a mixture of urban running. The car is a '98 March 1.0 litre auto, with just 22,000kms on the clock. I changed the air and fuel filters when I bought it, it has brand-new correctly inflated tyres (to replace the frankly awful factory Toyo Kogyos), it starts on the first turn of the crank, runs like clockwork, and performs faultlessly - with this one exception. I've heard somebody mention that a faulty oxygen sensor can cause the fuel consumption to skyrocket but before I go down that path does anybody here have a suggestion? Many thanks, and congratulations on a great site.

Micra_King » CMF Member Perth Australia Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 01:44:35 AM
	O2 sensor should been fine if the car has only 22,000km's on the clock but could still be faulty I guess. What type of auto do the march ones come with? CVT like the UK sourced micras or normal type? Also you might want to inspect the fuel lines to make sure there not leaking.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 07:18:59 AM
	It's the normal four-speed auto. There are no fuel leaks - I've checked that one. I should also state for the record that my wife drives with a very light foot, and in my week of using the car I purposely drove it very gently.

Micra_King » CMF Member Perth Australia Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 09:09:35 AM
	If everything seems ok then it might be worth replacing the O2 sensor then. Also jack the car up and make sure the wheels spin without to much drag to rule out a bad bearing or brake cylinder.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 12:35:28 PM
	Thanks Micra King. I know that the brakes aren't binding - I was pushing the little car down the driveway just yesterday to get it out of the way of something I was doing. Is there a simple method of testing the 02 sensor to determine whether it is working correctly?

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 06:43:28 PM
	Bogchook WROTE: . Is there a simple method of testing the 02 sensor to determine whether it is working correctly?" bogchook, if the middle (white) lambda wire is reading about .5v while your cruising, it,s working ok. and a faulty coolant sensor might cause overfueling :-) frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 06:59:00 PM
	Hi Frank. Thanks for that, but I need to know two things. Where is the sensor located, and how do I test it while cruising? I recall reading somewhere that there was a voltage test you can do on them with the ignition on but the engine off. The temperature gauge reads fine, so can I assume you're talking about a separate coolant sensor for the EM that causes overfueling? Pardon my ignorance everybody, and please accept my gratitude for the answers so far.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 07:15:55 PM
	bogchook the lambda is bolted into the front of the exh manifold, you might be able to test it in neutral at, say 3000rpm ?, if not you,ll have to run a the wire to the cabin (+ an earth) and yes, there,s a 2nd (bigger) coolant sensor under the dizzy frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 08:10:35 PM
	Got that. I'll get the wife to prod the pedal tomorrow and measure that voltage. There's no rev counter (and my timing light doesn't have one built in) so I'll have to judge 3000rpm by sound. How would I determine if the coolant sensor is faulty?

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 13 Feb 2009 08:29:26 PM
	Bogchook WROTE: How would I determine if the coolant sensor is faulty?" bogchook, my lambda voltage is off the scale rich (ie, over .9v at any throttle position or rpm) until the engine warms up, and then the voltage is roughly .5 at cruise, zero v on lift and most times it,s rich (.9v+) on acceleration. so if yours is .9v+ when warm, i would think it,s overfueling for some reason :-) frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 14 Feb 2009 09:04:39 AM
	Hi Frank, I've got a busy car day today trying to get the servo on my Rover P6B reassembled and working, but I will at some point attempt to check that lambda sensor. If it's crook I hope a replacement isn't too expensive... :-0

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 14 Feb 2009 10:17:25 AM
	bogchook aah, ye olde p6 (ally doors and bonnet were,nt they ?), i think any generic 3 wire ebay jobbie will do :-) frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 14 Feb 2009 11:25:27 AM
	Ally bonnet and bootlid, but the doors are sturdy British steel. A fine car, and still a good drive. I've recently given up my job with its handy perk of a company car, and in its absence I have de-retired the Rover. I don't yet feel hard done by. Petrol bill excepted of course.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sun 12 Apr 2009 07:55:55 PM
	Well gents, after weeks of working away from home and other distractions, I have finally got around to testing the lambda sensor on the family March. As you can see from the photo below it has only one wire, but it is white. After arriving home from a trip out I disconnected the plug and stuck my multimeter between the pin and the negative post on the battery while the wife sat in the driver's seat and maintained steady rpm. No matter what speed she held the engine at the meter read approximately 0.9 V, just fluctuating slightly. Have I found the problem? I can confirm that while I've been away the car has been achieving stunning fuel consumption figures of about 10 km/l. I think my V8 doesn't do much worse than that. Best regards to all on the forum.
	Image Attached:

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Mon 13 Apr 2009 02:20:57 PM
	The local agent has quoted me $89.99 (NZD) for a new sensor. I hope this works!

Orleando » CMF Member Vilnius Lithuania Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Mon 13 Apr 2009 05:50:49 PM
	Hi. I have similar problem mine micra eats about 8-9L/100km and it is way too much. Today Ive checked lamda sensor with voltmeter and dont know if it is really bad. This is what we did: warmed up engine, then tried to access the trouble codes but shortening the bottom left pins was useless, Ive tried few times but no light came on the dashboard, so then we decided to check it with voltmeter. When the engine is at steady rpm (about 2000-3000) it shows about 0 and not changing, when engine is left to work at idle the readings go up to about 0.8v but not fluctatng as Ive read it should be. So is my lambda sensor working?

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Mon 13 Apr 2009 06:01:03 PM
	bogchook i cant see how it could work with only one wire, are there any cut wires there ? orleando my voltage is very random on tickover and acceleration, but it,s always fluctuating between .4v and .6v at cruise (ie, constant 30mph or 70mph etc) and always drops to zero on lift frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Mon 13 Apr 2009 06:18:30 PM
	Hi Frank, thanks for getting back to me. In the following link there is some info about single-wire sensors: http://www.topbuzz.co.uk/info/oxygen_sensor/oxygen_sensor.htm I don't know if you can discern it in my picture above, but there are no cut wires. Also bear in mind that this is only a problem that has developed in recent times, and since 2007 nobody but me has ever had their head under the bonnet of "CHK259". The local parts outfit I contacted confirmed that they had a single wire sensor for the March in stock. I presume that vehicle earth completes the necessary circuit. Orleando, I'd be quite pleased with only using 8-9 litres/100kms. CHK259 has been gobbling through about 10! Regards, Warren

Wilzy » CMF Member Wokingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Mon 13 Apr 2009 07:52:23 PM
	sorry to steal the post Bogchook.. but does anyone in the U.K know where i could get a new OS? or is it gonna be an internet jobby? ive got the same problems as you bogchook hopefully i have the same issue with the oxy sensor too. fingers crossed!!

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Mon 13 Apr 2009 07:56:44 PM
	No apology necessary Wilzy! Here in NZ I'm able to get it from the local "Super Cheap Auto Spares" chain store. They are stockists of general automotive spares and accessories which leads me to think that the OS for the March is a fairly generic device. I imagine you'd find one at a similar store in the UK without too much trouble.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 03:13:14 AM
	bogchook you could try the test mode thingy
	Image Attached:

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 03:13:57 AM
	2nd pic
	Image Attached:

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 08:00:00 AM
	Hmmm, I think we might be up against the differences between an English-made Micra and a JDM March. Here's what my fusebox/diagnostics plug looks like:
	Image Attached:

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 08:41:08 AM
	nah bogchook, it,s just yours is mounted upside down (southern hemisphere) lol frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 08:51:04 AM
	Well here's the rub. I managed to set the ECU to diagnostic mode, so I took the car for a drive around the block to warm it through, put it back into diagnostic mode and started the engine. At good steady revs the engine light flashed regularly at me as if everything was OK. What now?

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:00:37 AM
	frank2 WROTE: "it,s just yours is mounted upside down (southern hemisphere) lol" Yes, very good Frank! I've just tested the voltage again with my son holding the accelerator and the voltage sat around 0.8 - 0.9 V as the revs varied slightly around the 2-3K mark (I'm going by sound as there is no tacho). There was a drop in voltage on lift-off.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:01:38 AM
	bogchook your sparkplug colour can give a good indication on a/f/r,s eh frank

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:05:26 AM
	Bogchook WROTE:I've just tested the voltage again with my son holding the accelerator and the voltage sat around 0.8 - 0.9 V as the revs varied slightly around the 2-3K mark (I'm going by sound as there is no tacho). There was a drop in voltage on lift-off. " bogchook going by that then, i would say the coolant temp sensor is stuck on cold ? frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:16:14 AM
	I guess it'd pay to check that, Frank. The temperature gauge reads OK, but there's a second coolant sensor for the ECU isn't there? Below is a pic of the No.1 sparkplug, taken moments ago. I was struggling to get enough light to show the colours properly, but I think you can get the idea.
	Image Attached:

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:25:38 AM
	bogchook looks a nice colour eh, and yeh, the single wire one is for the guage (next to the ecu one) my fan kicked in when i joined the 2 sender wires, so i assume it,s hot engine = high resistance ? edit, 300 ohms @ 80deg c frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:29:57 AM
	I'll whip it out and see what the deal is.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:32:46 AM
	bogchook 300 ohms @ 80deg c and 3.3 ohms, lambda btw (edit, scrub that, thats the lambda heater value, which does,nt apply to yours) frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:38:56 AM
	Thanks Frank. What a beast of a thing to get to! I haven't succeeded yet, but if I can just get the plug off then with the engine warm I should see the 80 ohms without having to pull out the sensor. When should I see 3.3 ohms across the lambda sensor? Cold engine, warm engine, running, not running? Warren

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:45:57 AM
	warren sorry, i,ve edited the previous post, re, lambda frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:57:17 AM
	Right, I've got the plug off. I'm just trying to manoeuvre my multimeter prongs down there now. What a bastard of a thing to get to.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 09:57:44 AM
	warren edit, yeh i know, you might end up pulling the dizzy out eh
	Image Attached:

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 10:08:13 AM
	That pic is well worth seeing. I just spun the car around the block to warm the engine through again and managed to get my multimeter prongs into the little plastic shroud and prod about until I got a reading. As I messed about the resistance started at about 340 ohms and over a minute or two climbed to approximately 350 ohms. This would tally with an engine that wasn't quite at full temp. I suspect from this that the coolant sensor is OK.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 10:13:07 AM
	And for your information, here is a pic of the exhaust pipe. It seems a little dark to me, but my point of reference is a rather elderly but freshly tuned Rover V8 which runs a silvery-grey pipe.
	Image Attached:

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 10:15:05 AM
	warren yeh, it seems ok eh, you could check the fuel consumption with the lambda disconnected, to see if it,s any worse than now, eh ? frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 10:30:10 AM
	I'm a little flummoxed all told. ECU diagnostics suggest the lambda sensor is OK, spark plugs, exhaust and coolant sensor seem OK. But fuel consumption is horrendous for a 1.0 litre. I still concerned that the lambda voltage is rather high (0.8 - 0.9V) at steady revs compared to the 0.5V that has been suggested. Could it be possible that the ECU thinks 0.8-0.9 is OK (hence the OK diagnostics) but it is actually a faulty sensor? I'm in a quandary as to whether to gamble $90 on a new lambda sensor. From trawling around the net it seems like faulty lambda sensor/poor fuel consumption is a common problem with the Micra/March.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 10:59:59 AM
	Here is some useful info on lambda sensors and how to check them: http://www.picoauto.com/applications/lambda-sensor.html Can anybody tell me how to locate the return fuel line?

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 03:57:40 PM
	I've just done a little more testing with the multimeter. An obliging wife on throttle duty maintaining a fully warmed engine at around 2-3000 rpm (going by sound) produced a lambda sensor voltage of approximately 0.9V. Dropping the throttle off made the voltage briefly fall back to zero before resuming duty at 0.9V. Holding the revs high and pulling the vacuum servo hose off (artificially creating a lean situation) caused the voltage to fall to zero and stay there. Replacing the hose and holding the revs at a high value (unknown speed but too uncomfortable to keep my head under the bonnet without ear muffs) meant a randomly dancing voltage that leapt about from about 0.3 to 0.9, mostly sticking to higher values. The meter is a Fluke 79, so it is not possible to get a true feel for what that dancing voltage is really doing, but maybe somebody can interpret it a little.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 06:19:41 PM
	Bogchook WROTE: Can anybody tell me how to locate the return fuel line?" warren, the return is connected to the pressure relief valve on the end of the fuelrail and i dont think you will get a true closed loop reading unless you actually cruise the car (eg 30mph, 50mph) maybe your oddball 4 speed box (were,nt most k11 auto,s cvt ?) has an unsuited diff ratio for a 1.0 ? frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 06:56:48 PM
	Hi Frank, There's nothing oddball about the 4-speed auto - nearly every JDM March in the country has one, and most NZ-new Micras too. The manuals are hard to find here, and the CVT is never seen. It might be the other way round and the CVT could be the rarer of the two when worldwide production is added up. Remember also that this car used to sip fuel very frugally and I only noticed the consumption go silly over the last few months. I'll run with your suggestion and do a drive test tomorrow with some wires fed back the cabin. Could be interesting. Hopefully more conclusive.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 07:03:54 PM
	lol warren, i stand corrected, mine is just a meter on the dash with 1 wire tapped into the lambda (t,other one earthed), i,m running on gas 99% of the time and i find it usefull frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 14 Apr 2009 07:50:14 PM
	Frank, perhaps if you place a southern hemisphere March auto in a container and ship it north of the equator (thereby inverting it), when you extract it at the other end it will have Micra badges and a CVT trannie. I'll post again in the morning after I've had a chance to do a test drive and try the return line clamp test. Cheers.

tiSh » CMF Member Cagayan de Oro Philippines Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 01:12:50 AM
	my 1.3 consumes about 5km per liter. hope it makes u feel any better :) planning to check the lambda/o2 sensor also... or probably the ECU needs resoldering

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 07:23:10 AM
	My 10 kms per litre sounds positively frugal by comparison! As you can see if you read the whole thread, my testing and experimenting has been somewhat inconclusive so far. I'm going to jury rig a couple of wires into the cabin this morning and drop my wife off at work, which should give me a good opportunity to see what the lambda voltage is doing under real-world driving conditions. Watch this space.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 08:38:31 AM
	OK Micra Fans, I've just rigged up my multimeter and will soon embark on a real-world test drive through city traffic to see what's happening with the lambda sensor. Here's how the test rig looks under the bonnet:
	Image Attached:

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 08:39:40 AM
	And inside the car: (The voltage shown on the meter is the lambda sensor at idle with a cold engine).
	Image Attached:

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 12:50:05 PM
	The results are in! And they're not encouraging. Driving around the city today I witnessed little coherence in the readings on the multimeter. I mostly saw a randomly fluctuating voltage no matter what the car was doing. The only time I ever saw a solid voltage was at moderate to high revs under hard acceleration when the meter settled at about 0.9V. Otherwise it simply fluctuated up and down, no matter the load or the revs. Every now and then when the car had been idling for at least a minute or so the voltage would stop fluctuating and settle at a little over zero. But the moment the throttle was prodded the random fluctuating recommenced. Is it time to take a gamble and spend $90 on a new lambda sensor?

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 01:34:30 PM
	If you swat up on lambda sensors, you will learn that a square-wave voltage fluctuation is normal behaviour. But how random should it be? I couldn't see any pattern in what mine is doing.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 05:00:53 PM
	Bogchook WROTE: "If you swat up on lambda sensors, you will learn that a square-wave voltage fluctuation is normal behaviour. But how random should it be? I couldn't see any pattern in what mine is doing." warren, one of the links you posted said that the signal fluctuates 8 or 10 times/sec or 1hz (i thought 1hz was 1/sec btw ?) and most digital meters have a refresh rate of 1/sec. so mine only see,s an average of those signals, ie .4 to .6v on cruise and it,s quite random at other times, (but mine has a 1.6 throttlebody and injectors, but should still be similar to yours) and a v of .9 may be way off the scale eh ? (these are only narrowband lambda,s) frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 05:36:28 PM
	You're right, that Topbuzz article contradicts itself. 1hz is by definition 1 cycle per second. Most of what I've read seems to indicate 1hz is pretty much standard. If using the multi-meter method of testing the sensor then obviously the relationship between the frequency of the sensor and that of the meter will produce some strange results, which may account for some of the randomness of the measurements I've seen. However should I be seeing repeated full-scale deflections (ie, 0.0V to 0.9V) while driving at a steady speed. I thought that smaller deflections centred around a mid-point voltage would have been more likely. PS> The way this thread keeps growing I hope it turns out to be useful to other Micra/March fans in the future.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 06:00:03 PM
	warren, mine is VERY consistantly showing .4 to .6 at cruise, your lambda seems to be detecting the values correctly but the ecu "seems ?" not to be closed looping properly ? frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 15 Apr 2009 06:48:17 PM
	The ECU diagnostic showed no fault. But I suppose it is a possibility. Starting the engine cold results in a steady voltage that climbs from zero up to about 0.3V. As soon as I start to back the car out of the garage (introducing load) the voltage starts to go silly. I've looked up the specs for the Fluke 79 Series II meter I'm using, and its bar graph mode is theoretically far more than capable of handling the switching of the lambda sensor. I should perhaps drive around a little more and see if I can detect any more signs of a pattern.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Thu 23 Apr 2009 08:29:03 AM
	Hi Micra fans, We haven't used the March much lately thanks to catching buses to work, etc, but I've had it out a couple of times in the last week after learning how to put my multimeter into an "averaging" mode which dampens the mad oscillations of the digital display. I can now see the following results: Idling/overrun: 0.0V - 0.2V Cruising: 0.3V - 0.7V Moderate/hard acceleration: 0.9V The bar display still shows the regular oscillations of the sensor. So to recap: - Vehicle seems to run very smoothly and happily. - Lambda sensor appears to be OK. - Engine diagnostic test reports no problem. - Coolant sensor tests OK. - Vehicle does not show signs of rich running (see photos of spark plug/exhaust above). - There are no binding brakes etc. - The driving style used is gentle, and the aircon is not used. - Vehicle is achieving approximately 10km/litre. Any more ideas?

qwerty132 » CMF Member Australia Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Thu 23 Apr 2009 07:03:01 PM
	Hey, You car seems to be exactly like mine.. Mine is a 1.3l 5spd SLX with A/C and PS. This is actually the second micra that Ive had that is pretty much the same economy. It doesnt really matter how I drive it I still get around 10L/100km. I use the a/c a bit as I dont really notice any difference using it or not. In the first Micra(same as specs as above) I replaced the O2 sensor. It didnt really make much difference. I dont think the original was really working properly. I have recently got a consult cable and found some software for my laptop so I can actually see whats going on. I havent had much of a chance to look at it yet. I did do a fair bit of highway driving the other week. I managed to get 550km and the light only just came on. It was 300km at half tank. If you find out what the problem is, Let me know. Thanks qwerty132

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Thu 23 Apr 2009 08:16:12 PM
	Yes, it's quite frustrating isn't it? Without a cable, the software or sufficient knowledge to use it properly, I'm wondering whether paying for a diagnostic check would be worthwhile, or simply flushing money down the drain? There has to be something going on here - other Micra/March owners get very good economy out of theirs. Yet there's a large group of us who don't, and while some seem to fix theirs by replacing the lambda sensor I'm not convinced it's going to help me. But I'll persevere for now - my wife loves her little yellow "Lily" and won't entertain thoughts of another car. I've certainly learnt a lot about lambda sensors while this thread has been underway!

qwerty132 » CMF Member Australia Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 24 Apr 2009 11:10:06 PM
	Hey, Ive got a bit of an update... I filled up tonight. It was a little bit better. I got 375km off 33.7L which works out to be just under 9l/100km. I have been driving a different way to work - strangely its been stop-start through about 12 traffic lights instead of going the freeway. Im also thinking that I may be filling up to early. It seems that the fuel light on this micra(compared to my old one) starts coming on with about 9-10L left in the tank. I think I might stick a tin of fuel in the back and see how far I can get. qwerty132

LonePhantom » CMF Member Canberra Australia Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 25 Apr 2009 06:43:28 AM
	Gee, my Micra sounds rough as guts (need to replace bearing in the water pump tensioner pulley), but the engine with 192000 kms on it pulls average 6.7lt per 100km. I can get past 450kms before the light comes on, and fill 33lts in the tank to fill it. I don't get these high readings on Micras when mnie sounds terrible, but still pulls a reasonable figure.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 25 Apr 2009 08:09:17 AM
	That's the crunch - our March sounds great, goes great, doesn't appear to have any obvious problems, yet the fuel consumption is rotten. Where do I look next?

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 25 Apr 2009 08:20:16 AM
	Bogchook WROTE: Where do I look next?" the new tyres ?

nz_aj » CMF Member Auckland New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 25 Apr 2009 10:11:11 AM
	Assume overdrive isn't switched off? My half deaf mum was driving hers around like that for a while. Wheel alignment. Dragging brake shoes or pads. With the hub caps off, do any of the wheel rims feel warmer than the others after driving for a few km? 22,000km is real low for an 11 year old car, sludged up? Have you taken the rocker cover off & checked? The temperature sender can appear ok & actually be sending a signal for 20 degrees less than the actual water temp, making the car run richer. I think mine (1L 5spd) had leaking injectors when I was getting similar mileage, although I replaced them & the throttle body all at the same time. Another guy I know got an ~3mpg improvement when he replaced the fuel pump, all I can think of is that the old one wasn't giving as much pressure resulting in the injectors not atomising fuel as well. I also have a Rover V8, P5B.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 25 Apr 2009 06:47:38 PM
	Frank, the new Dunlops would have to be an IMPROVEMENT on the shitty factory Toyo Kogyos with their floppy sidewalls! Wheel alignment and brakes are good, I can confirm. However I'll do the hub caps off check just to be sure. Overdrive is on! Engine is very clean - I checked it when I bought it. Also no sign of sludge in the sump. Oil is changed every year. I've now had the temperature sender out and checked it against my digital meter in varying water temperatures and it matches up perfectly with Frank's resistance figures (somewhere above). And recall that the car doesn't appear to be running rich (see above). NZ_AJ, is that a P5B saloon or coupe? And I'm convinced it's easier to diagnose a Rover V8 than a Micra/March at this point in time. My V8 is running beautifully! I might have to think about a diagnostic test by a suitably qualified person.

nz_aj » CMF Member Auckland New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 25 Apr 2009 08:35:51 PM
	Another thought, how strong is the spark? The coil in the dizzy can break down. Which brand have you got? Hitachi has been the more reliable, Mitsi the most problematic. Getting a consult cable & software certainly helps diagnosing exactly whats going on. I've used this cable & datascan software on 3 or 4 K11 & a number of other nissans. http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/consult_if.shtml 1968 Rover P5B Saloon, white with Black leather interior. Last had a WOF in 2005, rego is on hold. Had issues with the brakes when I bought it (hoses were swollen closed causing them to jam on). Drove it home thou, handbrake was good. Some rust to deal with in the LH sill, some small spots in the boot lid & in a couple of door skins. Needs a paint. Front carpet is rough, need to make up some door rubbers and one side indicator lens is missing. Otherwise tidy. I've taken it for a drive now & then but is otherwise just sitting in my garage. Trans is shifting roughly, one lifter is sticky, needs an oil change, all requiring time that I haven't got right now. Apparently the engine had been reco'd not to long before I bought it, no smoke. There's a water leak I haven't tracked down yet, hopefully a hose & not a frost plug.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sun 26 Apr 2009 07:05:43 AM
	Lovely car, worth keeping sequestered if you don't have time to fix it right now. Mine's a '72 P6, "Tobacco Leaf" with the tan interior. I've owned it for 13 years, gave it a bare-metal respray 10 years ago. For various reasons it hasn't been on the road since 2002, but I'm currently resurrecting it. 98,000 kms, the interior is in exceptional condition excepting a small crack on the dashtop and a little surface wear in the leather on the driver's seat where the driver's right shoulder rubs climbing in and out. Mechanically excellent although I'm about to replace the inlet manifold gasket due to a slight chuff, and I'm in possession of all the parts needed for a conversion to PAS which I'll undertake soon. In case you are unaware, all the rubbers are available for P5s and P6s - let me know if you want details.
	Image Attached:

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Mon 27 Apr 2009 12:30:19 PM
	I've been out in the March today, and for the trip home I pulled off the hubcaps. Once back in the garage I felt around the wheel centres for heat. The rear wheels (drum brakes) were slightly warm; the front wheels were moderately hot. There may have been a slight difference with the right hand side a little warmer than the left, but I couldn't be conclusive about that. I might have to try the same trick after a longer run. Having said all that, the brakes work beautifully and evenly, with no pull evident. The car tracks straight and true when cruising with hands off the wheel. In fact everything about the car seems PERFECT! with the exception of the fuel consumption. It's very annoying.

nz_aj » CMF Member Auckland New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Tue 28 Apr 2009 02:14:05 PM
	If one is dragging you probably won't notice when you're driving, i.e. they'll seem even. If it's one of them dragging that caused the mileage you're getting, it'd be obviously hotter than the others after driving around for a while, possibly not if you're braking all the time. Yes I know you can get rubbers but they're too expensive for my current financial position. There are instructions on the net for glueing up 3 different standard rubber sections to do the P5 door seals. This will be my likely course of action.

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Fri 01 May 2009 05:16:58 PM
	I've got a short open road trip to make over the weekend. It's all straight and flat (ie not so much brake use) so I'll see how hot the front wheels are after that. I suspected the right hand wheel might have been a little hotter than the left after checking the other day, so going on your advice just above, AJ, it might still be in the running as a possible cause. All my Rover P6 rubbers came from an outfit called Scotts in Australia, but that was about 10 years ago. Nowadays I get stuff in from J.R. Wadham in the UK - they have just about everything for P4, P5 & P6 Rovers. I've got a few bits coming in the next few weeks, but you're right, if the money ain't there then it's time to look at practical alternatives.

qwerty132 » CMF Member Australia Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Sat 02 May 2009 09:55:16 AM
	Hey, I haven't checked to see if a wheel is binding on mine yet.. I may be able to borrow one of those infra red temperature thingos to check the actual temps. Ill let you know if I find anything. qwerty132

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 06 May 2009 08:46:59 AM
	I didn't make that trip in the March due to changing requirements - needed a bigger vehicle in the end. Now it's been sitting in the garage all week so I haven't got any further. I'll be interested to see your results Qwerty132, when you get them.

frank2 » CMF Member birmingham United Kingdom Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Wed 06 May 2009 09:01:15 AM
	i took my misses,s 1.0 (with 1.3 cams) on a 300 mile trip yesterday, and it used 26 ltrs not bad going, methinks :) frank

Bogchook » CMF Member Christchurch New Zealand Member since: Posts:	Re: A rather thirsty March 1.0	Thu 07 May 2009 12:31:05 PM
	Frank, that's nearly double the mileage I've been getting out of CHK259.